Amber is a dear friend whom I met through Flowers, and our families have seen each other several times during travels. She was the website manager/writer for Flowers for five years and helped the team greatly with organizing writings on Trello. I was struck by God’s faithfulness as I took notes during this phone interview with Amber. I told my husband later that day that hearing Amber recount some of her story was life-giving to me, and I pray you’re encouraged as well as you read through this PW interview!
Interview questions:
Where did you grow up?
I grew up in the same house in Escanaba, Michigan, except for the two years I spent in Mexico.
We attended the same church that my mom grew up in. I went to church with my grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins, and our extended family always ate together on Sunday afternoons. Holidays were special and were centered on family. I loved the familiarity of being in a stable environment. We lived across from Lake Michigan, and I especially enjoyed the lake breeze smell. It is the place to cry, sing, laugh; the place to go for anything. Even during my married days I lived near the lake.
When I came back from my second year in Mexico, my home church had split—it was so devastating, like a divorce. My parents then found a small church to go to, and that church is where I met Ben. He had been living in Montana where his dad pastored and was awaiting acceptance into pilot school at Moody Bible Institute. While he waited, he came back to Escanaba to go to community college and live with his grandparents. It was love at first sight for Ben and me! Just four days after meeting, we knew we’d marry. We were engaged six weeks later and married ten months later!
How did where you grew up contribute to preparing you for life in small-town pastoral ministry?
Watching my parents serve faithfully was a huge blessing, and they are still servants. The call on my life for ministry was really affirmed by my grandma, my mom’s mom. When I was ten, she taught me how to host and open up my home to people. She also encouraged me that I might be in ministry someday. I remember being with my mom, who was the church secretary, at the church all the time. I’d fall asleep in the church pew while my mom finished up her tasks. My grandma would bring me to Bible study and I remember a lady asking me Bible questions. She encouraged me that I would counsel women someday. I loved the Word! I went to all the ladies’ events. My gift of hospitality began to shine; I served in the church kitchen with the older ladies and I loved it. I was allowed to serve as a kid—not shooed away! I can picture church women chatting about life while they washed dishes—not gossiping but passing down godly wisdom.
Where have you served in ministry?
After we married, Ben went to college and was a pastor’s assistant while in school. It was an instrumental time in our lives. The pastor’s wife at that church told me never to be afraid to have people over—serve popcorn and water if needed!
Our next church was at Bark River Bible Church in Bark River, Michigan. There Ben was the associate pastor of family ministries (which we soon learned was the code name for “youth pastor”) and taught kids. I would encourage him not to preach but teach. A year and a half later, a church opened up 20 miles away in Ford River. That church was a church that Ben’s dad and grandpa had started and pastored when Ben was a little boy, and it needed restoration. Ben‘s family had left when he was seven years old, and he came back at age 26 to be the senior pastor.
Next we served for seven years in a church in Stephenson, Michigan. After that time we resigned and felt the Lord’s call to do something else. This began a 1½-year sabbatical with no consistent income. We trusted God and focused on what God wanted in ministry. Ben was really looking for reaffirmation to ministry. God reaffirmed us, and we moved to East Chain, Minnesota, in October 2021 for Ben to become the lead pastor of East Chain Evangelical Free Church.
Can you describe the particular culture in those areas and how that affected your ministry?
I was born and raised in the Upper Peninsula (UP). Though I was born and raised there and had many good memories of my upbringing, I found when we served in ministry that the culture was oppressed spiritually. There were some influences from Native American culture, and there were many suicides and much poverty in the area. It was a cold climate, a cold culture. I found it closed and hard to break into. People take pride that they live in the back woods and don’t want to be bothered. We would visit my parents in Wisconsin and come back to the UP and almost always feel a spiritual oppression going back home. It was difficult to minister. Most people aren’t forward-thinking and are very settled with what they’re doing. We spent almost 16 years of our ministry and marriage in the UP. It was very dark and discouraging at times, but we spurred each other on in those times. A lot of Sundays I wanted to crawl back in bed. I felt a real oppression–closed in like the trees on every side. That said, I still love the people and church family!
Where we are currently serving in Minnesota, it feels like a night-and-day difference. There are bright, sunny skies and open spaces. The oppression has lifted. We didn’t realize how spiritually depleted and weary we were, but moving to Minnesota felt different. The church was looking for a captain of the ship, and they said that they would all have hands on their pastor’s back holding him up. That is what we have experienced.
Recently, we had so many VBS volunteers sign up, we had to turn some away. Every Sunday someone stops us to pray over Ben before he preaches. Ben captains the ship, but there are so many arm lifters and men to fall back on to pray with and make decisions with. A 70-year-old man from the congregation regularly meets with Ben just to be a sounding board. The women have asked me to stop saying “back home” because they say, “You are home!” Due to Covid, the church began holding “Church on the Lawn” services, rather than shut down the church. They handed out over 1000 flyers. As a result, nearly 300 people come every Sunday. They grew as a small church by loving people well!
It was a big ministry change to adjust to; we went from a congregation of 50-70 people in Michigan to five or six times that size in Minnesota. It’s difficult to connect with everyone each Sunday, though I would like to!
How did God bring you to a place of serving in small-town/rural ministry?
At both Bark River and Ford River, we were approached to apply for the position.
After those two churches, we put out resumes everywhere. A lifetime struggle with severe panic attacks held us back since I had many restrictions. One church even voted on Ben, but he was intuitive and wanted to protect me, so we didn’t go. God had us at just the right churches at just the right times. During those times in earlier churches I could be in the shadows and heal from the panic attacks. Initially, we withdrew our application from the East Chain church due to the depth of severity my panic attacks had reached, but then felt clearly led to reapply. God has always been faithful to place us and send us through open doors, just as He saw fit.
Did you have any sort of “calling” in this? If so, describe the circumstances.
When I was 12, I dedicated myself to full-time ministry. I knew I was called to that and told my family I would marry a pastor. When I was in high school, my youth pastor and his wife led a small-group Bible study at someone’s home, and I volunteered to babysit their kids. My youth pastor’s wife then asked if we could meet for discipleship, which we did for about two years. Then we would eat supper together, they would leave for Bible study, and then I would spend the night there. I gleaned all I could from them; I observed them parent their four kids, and I asked questions about being a pastor’s wife.
Did you have any particular areas of ministry in which you served in your church and community, and what led you to those decisions?
At every church where we have interviewed, I have always said, “I’m your behind-the-scenes person.” I’ll serve or wash dishes, or do whatever you need that’s not upfront. My primary calling is pastoral ministry–that is…I am called to take care of the pastor–my husband! I don’t need to be the Sunday School superintendent or the women’s Bible study teacher! “I like to fill in the cracks wherever and however I am able to help!”
I think my spiritual gifts are a mix of hospitality, helps/service, and encouragement. I feel like a church hostess–I enjoy scanning the crowd to see if anyone needs a cup of water, a tissue, help with kids. I want everyone to feel like they belong.
What has been one of your greatest challenges in this ministry context and how did you persevere in it? What did God teach you through it?
One of the hardest times is when families leave the church, but my most consistent challenge comes from being empathetic and taking on people’s problems and grief. I lie awake at night praying for them and empathizing with them. I’m tempted to think I can fix things, but I can’t rescue others. While police officers often get hardened from all they see and experience, it’s the opposite for me. I tend to carry the struggles of others. Ben helps by saying, “We’ve done all we can, and they have to make their own choices now. We give it to God and let Him fix it.”
What has been one of your greatest blessings in this ministry context, and how has that affected your perspective of small-town and rural ministry?
It’s a great blessing to walk through a difficulty with people and to see them grow spiritually and have victory. No matter the outcome, it’s a blessing to be trusted by people sharing their struggles. It seems that the greatest blessing can also be the greatest hardship.
In small and rural ministries, you are known and you know others and go through the trenches with them. I love the team aspect, too, of knowing others’ needs and meeting them together. After a recent service, a lady came through the greeting line and shared that she was broken. Before I could pray, three other ladies offered. It is such a blessing to be part of such an amazing team!
If you could give a piece of advice to other rural and small-town pastors’ wives, what would it be and why?
My advice would be to fill in the cracks. A small-town PW can feel overworked and underappreciated, and it can feel like small churches are killing PWs. Whether you are sitting in the nursery with kids so others can listen to your husband, leading Bible studies, or serving water to a grieving widow, God sees your effort, and He is glorified. It can be tempting to think there’s something bigger and better, or to get exhausted and wonder if it’s even worth it. Being faithful can be hard, especially when you drag yourself to bed at night after putting on a church gathering, cleaning up, and taking out trash. It’s not in vain! Ben read an article about a pastor who served in a rural church for 26 years and rejoiced that one person got saved in that time and his 26 years weren’t in vain! I need others to remind me to keep pressing on, that the goal is to hear “Well done, good and faithful servant.” I always want to cultivate an attitude of faithfulness, to serve as if I were serving Christ Himself.
It’s easy to look at what other churches appear to have, but forget that Kingdom work is all about furthering God’s Kingdom. It’s easy to let discontentment settle in and to wish for better resources. Keep the perspective that everything is important and God has placed us right where He wants us to serve with the gifts He has given us.
Ben often says, “Do for one what you wish you could do for all.” Christ is worth it! This keeps the focus off of numbers and amenities.
Whether in the struggling ministries or in the thriving ministries, we always have to keep our eyes on Christ. As the saying goes, “I can trust the next chapter because I know the Author.”
I was secure in my calling as a pastor’s wife, but that’s not always the case for everyone. You may find that your husband felt called to ministry after you were married, and you aren’t as certain about your calling. I would say this; you are sure that you are called to be his wife, so serve him well and in doing so, you will serve the church!
May God richly bless your ministry!
*Amber personally encouraged me (Denna) during this season of so much transition for our family with a reminder of God’s faithfulness. He’s the same God!
